I'll echo here what others have said. This was one of your best online exchanges. Jaimungal has a mix of curiosity and humility that makes for a good interviewer. I hope you sit down with him again one day.
I have listened to many, many DBH interviews. If I were to recommend one to a friend unfamiliar with your work, it might be this one. I thought it was wonderful that you and Curt began by jumping right into “the deep end.”
Food for thought, DBH. Nietzsche wrote in Thus Spake Zarathustra that, “In the end, one experiences only oneself.” In all human history, no human being has ever suffered more than a single individual can suffer. We feel only our own pain, never another’s, just as we spill only our own blood and sweat our own sweat. We can never tap into anybody else’s pain and feel a prick of their suffering or a spasm of their woe. We could never know any more pain than the miles of nerves and the ounces of chemicals in our own bodies allow us to. The numbers freak us out: 6 million here, 20 million there, etc., etc. but in the end it was only their own pain and their own suffering that they felt. There’s no sum total of human suffering because human suffering is never summed up and totaled.This doesn’t answer the question of evil, but this thought has helped me as a believer deal better with it, for whatever this thought is worth.
Sorry, however helpful I have found this idea, considering your recent challenges, it probably wasn’t the most propitious sentiment at this time. You are greatly appreciated.
I completely disagree with this take. Even if I can't literally feel someone else's exact pain, there is a thing called empathy. And even that assumption is not really credible. If Paul and late antique assumptions in general are right, then this view is completely wrong, it smacks too much of modern individualism and atomization as if we're all self sufficient islands. It makes more sense to me that we are all connected whether mystically or not and at least the governing assumption for Christians is that we are all members of one body, so even if my finger can't feel the pain in my eye it's still one body and the body itself feels that pain.
Honestly, that’s simply one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Obviously there’s a great sum of human suffering, of which our capacity for sympathy makes us aware. The problem of evil is not reducible to any individual’s particular suffering. Even in those terms, the price is too high to reckon. But the suffering of a child starving in Gaza is not mitigated by the fact that “only” one child directly experiences that starvation.
Thank you, Dr. Hart. I enjoyed your conversation with Curt very much. I find your faith, when you’ve discussed it, comes across as sincere, and as something that is frequently contended with — it’s not of the wholesale prepackaged variety. It’s therefore compelling and a breath of fresh air. I tend to see people projecting certitude and wonder what sort of rather invigorating substances it might require to make that descent.
This was a delightful surprise - I've been aware of Curt's podcast for years, and agree that he's an excellent host. He's genuinely humble, curious, smart and open-minded (perhaps to a fault; he's interviewed some outright cranks and charlatans, and the frequency of episodes related to UFO nuttiness had really turned me off to the whole project). But that may be the price of trying to "grow" one's podcast in the current climate. In any case, this is sure to be a very good episode, and I'm looking forward eagerly to watching it.
Thank you very much for these announcements. I just found out that A.N. Wilson's daughter is the classicist and translator Emily Wilson. Have you read her translation of the Iliad?
I was very happy to see that you did an interview with Curt Jaimungal for his podcast. Curt is one of the best out there, in my opinion, and his podcast has a wide, intellectually curious audience. I hope it leads some of them to pick up your books. The discussion was excellent. With the world going to hell in a handbasket, it is a privilege to "listen in" on such fascinating conversations. Truly an education. We are lucky to have you!
I've only looked at The Odyssey. It's weird, it shouldn't work (& the opening line absolutely does not work), but it often does. It's not at all "Homeric," but somehow that has its own charm. There's not really a good translation of The Odyssey, though (Fagles, Fitzgerald, Lattimore, just to take the big three of the last century, all have their faults & virtues; Fitz is prob the best, all things considered).
Thank you so much. That gives me deep joy. If it's not too much of a nuisance, could you comment on whether the Indian notion of dharma--as, say, it appears in the Ramayana or, even better, the Bhagavad-Gita--is at all analogous to the Dao? If that would require too long a response, is there any scholarship you would recommend on the topic?
I really enjoy Curt’s podcast; I look forward to listening to this!
P.S. My daughter, Esmé, and I have been enjoying The Mystery of Castle MacGorilla very much.
It’s the Iliad of our day.
I'll echo here what others have said. This was one of your best online exchanges. Jaimungal has a mix of curiosity and humility that makes for a good interviewer. I hope you sit down with him again one day.
الدكتور ديفيد شكرا لكل ما تقوم بة
فهو يساعدنا بشكل كبير أكثر مما تتصور
وصلاتي من أجل استعادة الصحة والعافية
استمتعت جدا بالبودكاست اتمنى ان تكون
هناك لقاءات مجددة
صدقني، أنا ممتن لصلواتك
It was a fascinating interview and I enjoyed the personal questions immensely.
Oh, and I’m praying for your health, David.
Many thanks.
I have listened to many, many DBH interviews. If I were to recommend one to a friend unfamiliar with your work, it might be this one. I thought it was wonderful that you and Curt began by jumping right into “the deep end.”
Dear Dr. Hart, thank you very much for this interview. Να είστε καλά!
Από τα χείλη σας στο αυτί του Θεού, όπως λέμε εδώ.
Food for thought, DBH. Nietzsche wrote in Thus Spake Zarathustra that, “In the end, one experiences only oneself.” In all human history, no human being has ever suffered more than a single individual can suffer. We feel only our own pain, never another’s, just as we spill only our own blood and sweat our own sweat. We can never tap into anybody else’s pain and feel a prick of their suffering or a spasm of their woe. We could never know any more pain than the miles of nerves and the ounces of chemicals in our own bodies allow us to. The numbers freak us out: 6 million here, 20 million there, etc., etc. but in the end it was only their own pain and their own suffering that they felt. There’s no sum total of human suffering because human suffering is never summed up and totaled.This doesn’t answer the question of evil, but this thought has helped me as a believer deal better with it, for whatever this thought is worth.
Except that that’s quite enough pain to make divine goodness questionable.
Sorry, however helpful I have found this idea, considering your recent challenges, it probably wasn’t the most propitious sentiment at this time. You are greatly appreciated.
Out of interest have you read Elaine Scarry on this in her book The Body in Pain?
Scarry was practically de rigueur in my grad student days.
I completely disagree with this take. Even if I can't literally feel someone else's exact pain, there is a thing called empathy. And even that assumption is not really credible. If Paul and late antique assumptions in general are right, then this view is completely wrong, it smacks too much of modern individualism and atomization as if we're all self sufficient islands. It makes more sense to me that we are all connected whether mystically or not and at least the governing assumption for Christians is that we are all members of one body, so even if my finger can't feel the pain in my eye it's still one body and the body itself feels that pain.
Yes but it is still only your own pain, only your own sensation, only your own nerves, not theirs.
Honestly, that’s simply one of the worst arguments I’ve ever heard. Obviously there’s a great sum of human suffering, of which our capacity for sympathy makes us aware. The problem of evil is not reducible to any individual’s particular suffering. Even in those terms, the price is too high to reckon. But the suffering of a child starving in Gaza is not mitigated by the fact that “only” one child directly experiences that starvation.
Encountering this line in Paradise Lost yesterday I thought of DBH (and of others, too):
But pain is perfect misery, the worst
Of evils, and excessive, overturns
All patience...
(PL Bk VI, l. 462)
Thank you, Dr. Hart. I enjoyed your conversation with Curt very much. I find your faith, when you’ve discussed it, comes across as sincere, and as something that is frequently contended with — it’s not of the wholesale prepackaged variety. It’s therefore compelling and a breath of fresh air. I tend to see people projecting certitude and wonder what sort of rather invigorating substances it might require to make that descent.
Well, faith comes in different forms and magnitudes, but I share your inability to trust perfect certitude.
This was a delightful surprise - I've been aware of Curt's podcast for years, and agree that he's an excellent host. He's genuinely humble, curious, smart and open-minded (perhaps to a fault; he's interviewed some outright cranks and charlatans, and the frequency of episodes related to UFO nuttiness had really turned me off to the whole project). But that may be the price of trying to "grow" one's podcast in the current climate. In any case, this is sure to be a very good episode, and I'm looking forward eagerly to watching it.
You’ll love our extended conversation on the differing agendas of the reptilians and the greys.
Well now I’m really excited
Dear Dr. Hart,
Thank you very much for these announcements. I just found out that A.N. Wilson's daughter is the classicist and translator Emily Wilson. Have you read her translation of the Iliad?
I was very happy to see that you did an interview with Curt Jaimungal for his podcast. Curt is one of the best out there, in my opinion, and his podcast has a wide, intellectually curious audience. I hope it leads some of them to pick up your books. The discussion was excellent. With the world going to hell in a handbasket, it is a privilege to "listen in" on such fascinating conversations. Truly an education. We are lucky to have you!
Troy
I have become enamored of Emily Wilson’s translations.
I've only looked at The Odyssey. It's weird, it shouldn't work (& the opening line absolutely does not work), but it often does. It's not at all "Homeric," but somehow that has its own charm. There's not really a good translation of The Odyssey, though (Fagles, Fitzgerald, Lattimore, just to take the big three of the last century, all have their faults & virtues; Fitz is prob the best, all things considered).
Early in her Iliad you'll find a lot of gratuitous close-ups of "hairy chests". For my part I couldn't take to it. (I'm sorry).
I like the strangeness of the diction. Not the hairy chests, maybe.
I'll try to keep an open mind, then, and maybe take another look in the future--in a spirit of charity.
There’s more than one way of peeling a banana.
Troy, if you are familiar with the podcast, do you happen to know if that recap at the end of the interview was done entirely by an AI?
Hi Momchil, yes, I am familiar with the podcast, but I haven't listened to it in a while. I think the AI recaps are new; I don't like them.
David, what do you think of Chinese translations of John 1:1 that render λόγος as 道?
That no other translation could be better.
Thank you so much. That gives me deep joy. If it's not too much of a nuisance, could you comment on whether the Indian notion of dharma--as, say, it appears in the Ramayana or, even better, the Bhagavad-Gita--is at all analogous to the Dao? If that would require too long a response, is there any scholarship you would recommend on the topic?
Analogous, yes; identical, no, as you no doubt already realize.