A very well written review of Kenogaia by John Carr, which also expresses most of my sentiments (but much more eloquently).
John Carr already mentioned that this book transcends the boundaries of its genre. I will only add that readers of more academic DBH’s works would be very pleased to recognize familiar philosophical and theological themes: universal salvation, fallen world, criticism of infernalism, mind-body dualism, fanaticism and certain trends in modern psychology, among others.
I also agree with Mr. Carr that DBH has shown great skills in worldbuilding. If he were willing to lower himself to popular fiction, I have little doubt that he could produce best-selling fantasy series (and at much higher level than what fantasy readers are used to expect). And, unlike certain modern “luminaries” in this field (e.g. G.R.R. Marin, Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch), he can finish what he has started. Unfortunately, for that to happen, he will need to abandon the gorgeous steampunk sub-genre and move to a medieval or Renaissance-like setting. And also, he will have to give his protagonists at least some rudimentary weapon skills since the general public (unlike me or other readers of this Substack) will not be too enthusiastic about heroes overcoming dangers only with their wits, strong legs, pure hearts and a bit of non-destructive otherworldly magic😊.
Would you consider a post for average intellects detailing in simple terms the neo neo cal or young Turk debate and what it’s implications are. I just can’t follow it. Your friend, Bradley
What you write about Theology is why I went the route of secular religious studies and classics: it became clear to me that many of my friends receiving a “theological” education were not really sufficiently aware of how to do philology, literary study, or history, and yet all the brightest minds I knew from the Christian Tradition, including those they valued, were. I remember a student once asking me (a grad student) what I thought it would take, for instance, to become CS Lewis or JRR Tolkien (theologians in a loose sense, I realize). My reply was that it would take reconstructing the classical education in literature and philosophy that they received for one’s self in a way that is increasingly so difficult that it might be better to pick a different goal. In defense, I suppose, of theology students, religion and classics departments are often first on the chopping block.
1. Thank you for the link to my review. One small note of clarification: ClassicalU, which hosts the review in its online diary "Altum," is classical in a broad sense. It does produce teaching materials on the classical languages, but also on the liberal arts more generally: great literature of all periods, music, pedagogy, geometry, and so forth. Interested readers of this site can peruse "Altum" here: https://classicalu.com/altum/
2. My wife is from an upper crust Baltimore family (the name "Hopkins" should say it all), but I have never picked up a volume of Mencken. Clearly I should!
3. Fried oysters are indeed a travesty. Raw oysters are one of the foods of heaven, clearly (rather like the Marmoreans in Kenogaia) sewn in the seas of this earth by some good spirit after the fall.
I've been using Ware's writings to introduce Orthodoxy to middle school students for several years now. Defending Ware's theological views as worthy of serious consideration to skeptical students was a significant "aha" moment on my road away from the American evangelicalism of my parents. I'm saddened to hear of his passing.
I find that the most prolific narrators are often the most mediocre (the late Frank Muller being an exception), and nonfiction naturally attracts the most indifferent narrators of all.
Of course, they'll all be replaced by AI in ten years, so we should enjoy the human touch while it lasts.
First, that one paragraph about why you will not write a piece about your exit from First Things feels itself more than sufficient as an explanation for exiting First Things, complete with the best and most perfunctory summa of an already brief digest: "It became evil and stupid." Cackle.
Second, I did a double take on reading that passage from Mencken; if you hadn't quoted him I would have thought this was you, simply holding forth on the philistinism of New Yorkers vis-à-vis a recent and unfortunate culinary experience there. Really quite striking.
I love Mencken, but I thought the character based on him in the movie "Inherit the Wind" was silly. I too enjoyed the two books cited on Ware and found them useful. On another note, ironically, a few days ago, I happened to come across some commentary on Carpocrates in an old book of mine by Wolfson that survived a fire. From the footnotes I followed relating to Irenaeus it seemed that the Carpocratians believed in a form of reincarnation which can point to universal salvation, but I don't think of universal salvation when thinking about reincarnation. (ugh, onel life is bad enough; I sure hope that isn't the case).
I have read both books, The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way about 10 years after graduate school. I must say both books brought me to a point of angst and inner conflict. To the point where when people ask what religion am I..I just smile and say theologically orthodox but raised a Papist but not all that roman anymore. Maybe I should just say "I am a Patristic" and leave it at that :)
Metropolitan Kallistos’ The Inner Kingdom was the first book I read before converting to Orthodoxy. There are passages toward the end of that book that came to mind when I read That All Shall Be Saved. I’ve since lost my copy of Met Kallistos’ book so I can’t be more specific but he was definitely present in my mind as I made my way through your book. Thank you.
Dr. Hart, in the Inner Kingdom Kallistos Ware took the position that we are not in the position to see our way through to a confident expectation of universal restoration. Here is the quote,
“If the strongest argument in favor of universal salvation is the appeal to divine love, and if the strongest argument on the opposite side is the appeal to human freedom, then we are brought
back to the dilemma with which we started: how are we to bring into concord the two principles God is love and Human beings are free? For the time being we cannot do more than hold fast with equal firmness to both principles at once, while admitting the manner of their ultimate harmonization remains a mystery beyond our present comprehension.”
Page 214
I believe your lecture on Creation Ex Nihilo and your analysis of the final incoherence of Libertarian free will show us that we are not mired in mystery with regard to God’s love and human freedom.
I was wondering if you think Kallistos’ “hopeful Universalism” is now giving way to a more confident Universalism in Orthodoxy.
For those who are interested in Dr. Hart’s comments in relation to Gnosticism and Michael McClymond I can recommend the following interview he gave to me on the Grace Saves All podcast. Towards the end of the interview Dr. Hart relates how his and McClymond’s briefly being on the same faculty together, and the interactions they had, actually provided the impetus for That All Shall Be Saved.
Wonderful things sometimes come to pass when the right person is piqued!
I'm sad to hear of Met Wares passing, I found 'the orthodox way' to be a great elucidation of all the beauty of the eastern Christian tradition which initially drew me in.
On an unrelated note, I'm interested to know if you've ever written anything on near death experiences and what your opinion on the phenomenom is? They seem to me as a good peak into what may lie ahead. And generally speaking they also seem to align with your thoughts in some ways, like universalism, inclusivism, all religions being a shadow of a greater reality etc. I find many of these experiences very moving and they represent the love of God very beautifully.
Also, is there anywhere you've written or talked further in length about your approach to religious traditions/practice, in regards to seeing traditions as incomplete manifestations, Christianity being but one outpouring of the story of incarnation etc? I know you said elsewhere you're thoroughly syncretistic, so I'd love to hear more about what that entails for your devotion/spiritual practice.
I think the best translation of "omnes" in the fragment misleadingly employed by your opponent might be "all sorts," that is, distributively, since the passage goes on to discuss three types of soul, vel... vel.. vel... whether... whether... whether... But the context of that chapter is clear in any case--for the Carpocratians (according to Irenaeus) getting saved is a pretty involved process, not ensured for everyone.
By the way, since we have the original Greek for that part of AH, can you figure out why McClymond quotes the Latin? I find that just a little odd. Quoting the Greek, quoting it just in English—either makes sense. But why the Latin?
A very well written review of Kenogaia by John Carr, which also expresses most of my sentiments (but much more eloquently).
John Carr already mentioned that this book transcends the boundaries of its genre. I will only add that readers of more academic DBH’s works would be very pleased to recognize familiar philosophical and theological themes: universal salvation, fallen world, criticism of infernalism, mind-body dualism, fanaticism and certain trends in modern psychology, among others.
I also agree with Mr. Carr that DBH has shown great skills in worldbuilding. If he were willing to lower himself to popular fiction, I have little doubt that he could produce best-selling fantasy series (and at much higher level than what fantasy readers are used to expect). And, unlike certain modern “luminaries” in this field (e.g. G.R.R. Marin, Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch), he can finish what he has started. Unfortunately, for that to happen, he will need to abandon the gorgeous steampunk sub-genre and move to a medieval or Renaissance-like setting. And also, he will have to give his protagonists at least some rudimentary weapon skills since the general public (unlike me or other readers of this Substack) will not be too enthusiastic about heroes overcoming dangers only with their wits, strong legs, pure hearts and a bit of non-destructive otherworldly magic😊.
Would you consider a post for average intellects detailing in simple terms the neo neo cal or young Turk debate and what it’s implications are. I just can’t follow it. Your friend, Bradley
No doubt it will happen at some point.
What you write about Theology is why I went the route of secular religious studies and classics: it became clear to me that many of my friends receiving a “theological” education were not really sufficiently aware of how to do philology, literary study, or history, and yet all the brightest minds I knew from the Christian Tradition, including those they valued, were. I remember a student once asking me (a grad student) what I thought it would take, for instance, to become CS Lewis or JRR Tolkien (theologians in a loose sense, I realize). My reply was that it would take reconstructing the classical education in literature and philosophy that they received for one’s self in a way that is increasingly so difficult that it might be better to pick a different goal. In defense, I suppose, of theology students, religion and classics departments are often first on the chopping block.
1. Thank you for the link to my review. One small note of clarification: ClassicalU, which hosts the review in its online diary "Altum," is classical in a broad sense. It does produce teaching materials on the classical languages, but also on the liberal arts more generally: great literature of all periods, music, pedagogy, geometry, and so forth. Interested readers of this site can peruse "Altum" here: https://classicalu.com/altum/
2. My wife is from an upper crust Baltimore family (the name "Hopkins" should say it all), but I have never picked up a volume of Mencken. Clearly I should!
3. Fried oysters are indeed a travesty. Raw oysters are one of the foods of heaven, clearly (rather like the Marmoreans in Kenogaia) sewn in the seas of this earth by some good spirit after the fall.
I've been using Ware's writings to introduce Orthodoxy to middle school students for several years now. Defending Ware's theological views as worthy of serious consideration to skeptical students was a significant "aha" moment on my road away from the American evangelicalism of my parents. I'm saddened to hear of his passing.
I was thinking of getting the chrestomathy on audio a while back. May I know your opinion of audiobooks?
Nothing wrong with being read to. In the ancient past, that was how most people read. Just hope for a good reader.
I find that the most prolific narrators are often the most mediocre (the late Frank Muller being an exception), and nonfiction naturally attracts the most indifferent narrators of all.
Of course, they'll all be replaced by AI in ten years, so we should enjoy the human touch while it lasts.
First, that one paragraph about why you will not write a piece about your exit from First Things feels itself more than sufficient as an explanation for exiting First Things, complete with the best and most perfunctory summa of an already brief digest: "It became evil and stupid." Cackle.
Second, I did a double take on reading that passage from Mencken; if you hadn't quoted him I would have thought this was you, simply holding forth on the philistinism of New Yorkers vis-à-vis a recent and unfortunate culinary experience there. Really quite striking.
I’m afraid my roots are showing.
I love Mencken, but I thought the character based on him in the movie "Inherit the Wind" was silly. I too enjoyed the two books cited on Ware and found them useful. On another note, ironically, a few days ago, I happened to come across some commentary on Carpocrates in an old book of mine by Wolfson that survived a fire. From the footnotes I followed relating to Irenaeus it seemed that the Carpocratians believed in a form of reincarnation which can point to universal salvation, but I don't think of universal salvation when thinking about reincarnation. (ugh, onel life is bad enough; I sure hope that isn't the case).
That's one way of reading the sentence, but still the "all" is ambiguous, since it deals with a sentence about "how" rather than "who."
Oh, by the way, I ate fried oysters up in Maine last week. Confiteor H. L. omnipotenti, Mea Maxima Culpa.
Non te absolvit.
I have read both books, The Orthodox Church and The Orthodox Way about 10 years after graduate school. I must say both books brought me to a point of angst and inner conflict. To the point where when people ask what religion am I..I just smile and say theologically orthodox but raised a Papist but not all that roman anymore. Maybe I should just say "I am a Patristic" and leave it at that :)
I refer to myself as a primitive catholic...small c. Sometimes celtic.
Metropolitan Kallistos’ The Inner Kingdom was the first book I read before converting to Orthodoxy. There are passages toward the end of that book that came to mind when I read That All Shall Be Saved. I’ve since lost my copy of Met Kallistos’ book so I can’t be more specific but he was definitely present in my mind as I made my way through your book. Thank you.
That is my favorite book of his, which I also read in the months before converting to Orthodoxy.
I was going to ask you about Pfau on a recent article, but I'm glad you mention him, his book is quite an impressive tome
I would like to hear, sometime in the future, your agreements and disagreements with his thesis on the image
Tome, I think you meant to say.
I’m an admirer of Thomas.
Dr. Hart, in the Inner Kingdom Kallistos Ware took the position that we are not in the position to see our way through to a confident expectation of universal restoration. Here is the quote,
“If the strongest argument in favor of universal salvation is the appeal to divine love, and if the strongest argument on the opposite side is the appeal to human freedom, then we are brought
back to the dilemma with which we started: how are we to bring into concord the two principles God is love and Human beings are free? For the time being we cannot do more than hold fast with equal firmness to both principles at once, while admitting the manner of their ultimate harmonization remains a mystery beyond our present comprehension.”
Page 214
I believe your lecture on Creation Ex Nihilo and your analysis of the final incoherence of Libertarian free will show us that we are not mired in mystery with regard to God’s love and human freedom.
I was wondering if you think Kallistos’ “hopeful Universalism” is now giving way to a more confident Universalism in Orthodoxy.
With the influx of former Evangelicals into the church, quite the opposite in this country. Elsewhere it has always had its adherents and detractors.
For those who are interested in Dr. Hart’s comments in relation to Gnosticism and Michael McClymond I can recommend the following interview he gave to me on the Grace Saves All podcast. Towards the end of the interview Dr. Hart relates how his and McClymond’s briefly being on the same faculty together, and the interactions they had, actually provided the impetus for That All Shall Be Saved.
Wonderful things sometimes come to pass when the right person is piqued!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grace-saves-all-christianity-and-universal-salvation/id1534051216?i=1000537357398
I'm sad to hear of Met Wares passing, I found 'the orthodox way' to be a great elucidation of all the beauty of the eastern Christian tradition which initially drew me in.
On an unrelated note, I'm interested to know if you've ever written anything on near death experiences and what your opinion on the phenomenom is? They seem to me as a good peak into what may lie ahead. And generally speaking they also seem to align with your thoughts in some ways, like universalism, inclusivism, all religions being a shadow of a greater reality etc. I find many of these experiences very moving and they represent the love of God very beautifully.
Also, is there anywhere you've written or talked further in length about your approach to religious traditions/practice, in regards to seeing traditions as incomplete manifestations, Christianity being but one outpouring of the story of incarnation etc? I know you said elsewhere you're thoroughly syncretistic, so I'd love to hear more about what that entails for your devotion/spiritual practice.
There will be articles in future on many of these topics.
Extremely excited for the Bulgakov paper.
You’ll love the sequel: Masks 2: The Wrath of Sophia.
I'm even more excited for the film adaptation.
We’re trying to get Tiffany Haddish to play the created Sophia.
I think the best translation of "omnes" in the fragment misleadingly employed by your opponent might be "all sorts," that is, distributively, since the passage goes on to discuss three types of soul, vel... vel.. vel... whether... whether... whether... But the context of that chapter is clear in any case--for the Carpocratians (according to Irenaeus) getting saved is a pretty involved process, not ensured for everyone.
By the way, I’m assuming you’re the DW Frauenfelder who writes fantasy novels and tales of ancient Rome?
Guilty as charged.
Yes. Writing books for enjoyment is wicked. Yo be serious and virtuous is to be dull.
I am at work on another one that is a cozy Anglican mystery with talking bears. Not even my mother will be patient enough to read it, I wager.
An old story. Anglicans, mothers, and talking bears just don’t mix.
Yes, that’s even better. May I quote you to the rest of the readership?
Absolutely.
By the way, since we have the original Greek for that part of AH, can you figure out why McClymond quotes the Latin? I find that just a little odd. Quoting the Greek, quoting it just in English—either makes sense. But why the Latin?
If he is a Roman Catholic, that's where I'd look first for a motivation. But I am far from being able to see into his soul.
He’s a Charismatic Calvinist Evangelical low Episcopalian.
All righty then. That actually explains a lot. I don't know if you need to look farther than that. I could say many things, but will not. Wow.