I remember Rooney once earnestly saying on social media that things by virtue of their existence do not participate in God’s Being in order to do so. This was long ago, long before ever this particular scuffle was kicked up. I have ever since operated from the assumption that his metaphysics are fundamentally incoherent. That’s fine: plenty of people have incoherent metaphysics. But it was the sermon he preached implying that the true tragedy of a particular child’s death was that child’s parent losing their faith in hell that made me realize that he’s also, deep, deep down, possessed of a fundamentally inhuman approach to basic human relationships and feelings. One does not need metaphysics to intuit that his interest in this topic and perhaps in religion in general is motivated by a layered psychosis.
I still don’t understand why people are so fixated on defending eternal torment in Hell. I thought it would’ve been an idea people would rather struggle to believe but what people struggle with believing is God redeeming all of creation. Why is unending torment such an attractive idea? Honestly, it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Maximus is metaphysics is really a beautiful thing.I remember watching that Jordan wood video when it came out on the likelihood of his universalism.I’m stilling waiting on Paul’s epistle to the Americans .
I remember when I was thinking through evidence for a parent-child relationship between God and humanity that was by grace alone. I was so pleased to find the passage from Acts 17:28 in which the Greek word for children is genos! What a strong and beautiful connection Paul proclaimed to these Pagans! I remember as a youth visiting evangelical churches at the invitation of my friends who were wanting me to be saved. In those presentations there was often a cliff drawing where there was a great chasm between God and humanity with sin separating us. The implication was that God was far away from us. God was holy and we were tainted by our original sin and disgusting. It was so healing for me to find this passage in Acts 17 as well as the passages proclaiming the universal fatherhood of God in Ephesians from Paul as well. God is near to us. We live and move and have our being in God. God is our truest parent. We are God’s genos, God’s descendants, God’s race, God’s kind. All of this is ours as a gift. It is our original blessing which cannot be revoked. We each have extraordinary value to God, and the connection between us and God is analogous to that same relationship between a truly loving parent and the dearest child.
You are likely aware that 20 hours ago the world was blessed with this note from Rooney: "I do not wish anyone ill and worry that in these debates we lose charity along the way. We have a duty of prayer: if you have a moment, please say a prayer for David Bentley Hart and his followers, and all who struggle with these issues. I offered Mass this morning for them."
I merely speculate, but would some of these prayers run along lines such as these? ”Oh God, unless it be your will for them to be among those insane and broken souls held forever within your eternally-wounded heart, spare them and make them, with me, a part of your whole and healthy body.”
“A better theologian than a believer” is a phrase/idea that requires much further reflection and elaboration (not necessarily from you). I am very struck by it and quite like it.
Apropos genos, it is astonishing that Thomists, quick to correctly remind us that being is said in many ways, thereupon immediately forget that the same will be true of all its intrinsic determinations, such as genus, species, same, other, like , unlike, contrariety, etc
Its almost as if the denunciatory zeal is bought at the cost of selectively forgetting their own first principles.
My biggest problem is lack of consistent focus. I can be genuinely interested in something, anything, reading, working out, cooking dinner, etc. Sometimes I'm quite into what I'm doing, and other times I'm randomly zoned out. This can happen to anyone but I feel it happens to me slightly more than it should. All this aside, my intentions are good and well, but however it turns out, I always give it my best ( even when it's not fully my best). Look forward to the conversations! Told my wife about you a while back (DBH). She has a mild case of cerebral palsy and grew up heavily conservative, so her lack of enthusiasm may stem from that. I try very hard not to bring up my strong belief and understanding of the salvation of all to her anymore but it's still quite tempting to try and do so in creative and subtle ways occasionally. It can be a lonely place to be sometimes, that of a minority group, especially when your own spouse isn't "equally yoked" with you in your own faith or belief sets. I just wanted to get this stuff out of the way so I can start to have more 'normal' (something I've never been) discussions. Anyway, that's the last of this comment.
I'm glad to be a new subscriber to your sub-stack page! Thanks for the link!
Do you have a link as well to your interview with David Artman?
I recently bought his book, 'Grace Saves All - The Necessity of Christian Universalism'.
That's another thing that I've not yet pinned down, the origin of the term, - "Christian" and how it came about in the early church. I know it's only mentioned like three times in Scripture but I didn't fully absorb what I'd previously read on it so I'll need to dig into it some more. I've had some people correct me on calling myself a Christian, though I don't say that as much anymore due to the association of Western religion, which I am not in support of, but a fervent believer in the final redemption of all sentient beings. I suppose a more apt thing for me to say would be, "I'm a son of God (not, "The son of God"), or something. My apologies for not staying on topic with this post. I've been cooped up in my apartment for four days due to the icy weather here in Texas.
Don’t Thomits, Calvinists, and other believers in extremely narrow, predestined path to salvation ever think about the practical implications of their faith for human society? If people are fully convinced by their words and don’t expect to make the shortlist of the elect, isn’t the most logical choice to refuse to have children and to indulge in extreme hedonism? Perhaps it is they and not the universalists that should keep “honourable silence”.
Apologies if I'm being dense, but you cite Acts 2:17-18 for a claim made by Paul, but isn't it Peter? Also, regardless of that, I don't read Greek so I'm not tracking the use of genos in that passage. Can you straighten me out? Many thanks -
I remember Rooney once earnestly saying on social media that things by virtue of their existence do not participate in God’s Being in order to do so. This was long ago, long before ever this particular scuffle was kicked up. I have ever since operated from the assumption that his metaphysics are fundamentally incoherent. That’s fine: plenty of people have incoherent metaphysics. But it was the sermon he preached implying that the true tragedy of a particular child’s death was that child’s parent losing their faith in hell that made me realize that he’s also, deep, deep down, possessed of a fundamentally inhuman approach to basic human relationships and feelings. One does not need metaphysics to intuit that his interest in this topic and perhaps in religion in general is motivated by a layered psychosis.
I still don’t understand why people are so fixated on defending eternal torment in Hell. I thought it would’ve been an idea people would rather struggle to believe but what people struggle with believing is God redeeming all of creation. Why is unending torment such an attractive idea? Honestly, it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Maximus is metaphysics is really a beautiful thing.I remember watching that Jordan wood video when it came out on the likelihood of his universalism.I’m stilling waiting on Paul’s epistle to the Americans .
I remember when I was thinking through evidence for a parent-child relationship between God and humanity that was by grace alone. I was so pleased to find the passage from Acts 17:28 in which the Greek word for children is genos! What a strong and beautiful connection Paul proclaimed to these Pagans! I remember as a youth visiting evangelical churches at the invitation of my friends who were wanting me to be saved. In those presentations there was often a cliff drawing where there was a great chasm between God and humanity with sin separating us. The implication was that God was far away from us. God was holy and we were tainted by our original sin and disgusting. It was so healing for me to find this passage in Acts 17 as well as the passages proclaiming the universal fatherhood of God in Ephesians from Paul as well. God is near to us. We live and move and have our being in God. God is our truest parent. We are God’s genos, God’s descendants, God’s race, God’s kind. All of this is ours as a gift. It is our original blessing which cannot be revoked. We each have extraordinary value to God, and the connection between us and God is analogous to that same relationship between a truly loving parent and the dearest child.
You are likely aware that 20 hours ago the world was blessed with this note from Rooney: "I do not wish anyone ill and worry that in these debates we lose charity along the way. We have a duty of prayer: if you have a moment, please say a prayer for David Bentley Hart and his followers, and all who struggle with these issues. I offered Mass this morning for them."
I merely speculate, but would some of these prayers run along lines such as these? ”Oh God, unless it be your will for them to be among those insane and broken souls held forever within your eternally-wounded heart, spare them and make them, with me, a part of your whole and healthy body.”
“A better theologian than a believer” is a phrase/idea that requires much further reflection and elaboration (not necessarily from you). I am very struck by it and quite like it.
His willingness to define what orthodoxy is for the eastern church is in very poor taste. I find it legitimately offensive.
I don't know if you have answered to this already somewhere, but when might we expect your book on the philosophy of mind to be published?
Apropos genos, it is astonishing that Thomists, quick to correctly remind us that being is said in many ways, thereupon immediately forget that the same will be true of all its intrinsic determinations, such as genus, species, same, other, like , unlike, contrariety, etc
Its almost as if the denunciatory zeal is bought at the cost of selectively forgetting their own first principles.
I should very much to see Paul's Twitter & Substack writings, though I suspect we already have them.
"I do not know if he has a Substack page, but questions on this matter should be addressed to him."
I officially lost it. 🤣
My biggest problem is lack of consistent focus. I can be genuinely interested in something, anything, reading, working out, cooking dinner, etc. Sometimes I'm quite into what I'm doing, and other times I'm randomly zoned out. This can happen to anyone but I feel it happens to me slightly more than it should. All this aside, my intentions are good and well, but however it turns out, I always give it my best ( even when it's not fully my best). Look forward to the conversations! Told my wife about you a while back (DBH). She has a mild case of cerebral palsy and grew up heavily conservative, so her lack of enthusiasm may stem from that. I try very hard not to bring up my strong belief and understanding of the salvation of all to her anymore but it's still quite tempting to try and do so in creative and subtle ways occasionally. It can be a lonely place to be sometimes, that of a minority group, especially when your own spouse isn't "equally yoked" with you in your own faith or belief sets. I just wanted to get this stuff out of the way so I can start to have more 'normal' (something I've never been) discussions. Anyway, that's the last of this comment.
I'm glad to be a new subscriber to your sub-stack page! Thanks for the link!
Do you have a link as well to your interview with David Artman?
I recently bought his book, 'Grace Saves All - The Necessity of Christian Universalism'.
That's another thing that I've not yet pinned down, the origin of the term, - "Christian" and how it came about in the early church. I know it's only mentioned like three times in Scripture but I didn't fully absorb what I'd previously read on it so I'll need to dig into it some more. I've had some people correct me on calling myself a Christian, though I don't say that as much anymore due to the association of Western religion, which I am not in support of, but a fervent believer in the final redemption of all sentient beings. I suppose a more apt thing for me to say would be, "I'm a son of God (not, "The son of God"), or something. My apologies for not staying on topic with this post. I've been cooped up in my apartment for four days due to the icy weather here in Texas.
Don’t Thomits, Calvinists, and other believers in extremely narrow, predestined path to salvation ever think about the practical implications of their faith for human society? If people are fully convinced by their words and don’t expect to make the shortlist of the elect, isn’t the most logical choice to refuse to have children and to indulge in extreme hedonism? Perhaps it is they and not the universalists that should keep “honourable silence”.
Apologies if I'm being dense, but you cite Acts 2:17-18 for a claim made by Paul, but isn't it Peter? Also, regardless of that, I don't read Greek so I'm not tracking the use of genos in that passage. Can you straighten me out? Many thanks -