On prose style, hating Strunk & White, religion and literature, the numinous within the arts, atheists new and old, French bulldogs and their elfin origins, Harold Bloom, and so much more...
I must live in a weird parallel universe, because the Catholic "trads" I encountered online (back when they were first breaking into the mainstream) were all gay socialists who attended a bootleg Latin mass and made obscure memes about church history and medieval theology.
Did they admit they were gay and did they espouse socialism without tying it to antisemitic slurs? If the answer to both is yes, then we're not talking about the guys who now dominate in traddy circles.
I know the fellows you're talking about, I think, but they're "traditionalists" of a different kind.
Yep, openly gay, left-wing socialist, and weirdly obsessed with the Virgin Mary and the Tridentine Mass. I think there were a lot of them in NYC for a while. I didn't dig into it much further because I concluded pretty quickly that it was all too weird for me.
Edit: I somehow forgot their obsession with Wendell Berry.
It's just occured to me that some of people I'm describing may have considered themselves part of "Weird Catholic Twitter" without actually self-identifying as "trad," although a lot of them definitely did. 2018 was a weird time.
Edit: And I also just realized that I've always interpreted the "rad" in "rad trad" as a sort of ironic reference to how uncool is it to practice "robes, smells & bells" religiousity in a "spiritual, but not religious" age, but I guess it means "radical" in a political sense. Maybe I've only ever encountered people using it in a self-mocking way and never realized it had Integralist connotations when used in a non-Twitter context.
I really enjoyed this discussion. Thank you. Can you steer me toward some "catch up" reading? I don't know about the so-called "Baroque Thomism" or its revival. Also, where can I learn more about your claim at about 16:34 - "It is modernity recapitulated from its most catastrophic moment, precisely the thing that led to the secularization of culture and the collapse of what they understand to be Christendom." I'm intrigued but want to learn more. Many thanks!
Hey David. I tried to edit my previous post but I don't know how to. I didn't see it after I went back to the thread. I assume it was deleted, which is fine as it wasn't that important of a comment anyway. I wasn't really thinking clearly when I wrote it, so please forgive me. It was just something about Dawkins. Thanks.
I imagine your New Testament, which I'll receive the 2nd edition soon, would be parallel in many ways to my copy of the CLNT. I'm excited read your book all the way through as well as ..All Saved and .. History of Christianity, etc. I've not yet made it through your books yet due to starting so many at once, plus I'm still adjusting to my new married life. I know, excuses, excuses! For the record, yours are at the top of my list!
Great conversation between the two main participants and the guest star.
Ed Simon made a very astute observation about the way in which Twitter shapes our use of the language. I am embarrassed to admit that I have adopted quite a few expressions from that wretched place. One person who seems to be immune to the allures of Twitter’s simplicity is John Milbank, who somehow manages to maintain his sophisticated style even within this limited format and to produce such gems: “Schelling was a genius who repays much study; greater than Hegel. Yet he oscillated between seeing relation as finite and fallen and conflictual and God as pure identity, and putting conflictual relationality in God. He failed to think orthodox and peaceful substantive relation.”
That being said, for me Twitter is an indispensable source for getting news. You just need to create an anonymous account (in order to protect yourself against the consequences of incidentally liking a controversial tweet), follow some insiders and news sites specializing in the field you are interested in, and you will receive relevant news faster than any newspapers.
Since you might not be in the know here, Ozkii (and to leave you in the lurch seems a bit uncompanionable), to view DBH's (and certain company) sentiments on Kingsnorth, you'll need to scan the discussion posts for "On Writing, Part Two" - at least some of those that weren't "deleted" or "removed." In nuce, a conversation will in all probability not be had between the two.
I must live in a weird parallel universe, because the Catholic "trads" I encountered online (back when they were first breaking into the mainstream) were all gay socialists who attended a bootleg Latin mass and made obscure memes about church history and medieval theology.
Did they admit they were gay and did they espouse socialism without tying it to antisemitic slurs? If the answer to both is yes, then we're not talking about the guys who now dominate in traddy circles.
I know the fellows you're talking about, I think, but they're "traditionalists" of a different kind.
Yep, openly gay, left-wing socialist, and weirdly obsessed with the Virgin Mary and the Tridentine Mass. I think there were a lot of them in NYC for a while. I didn't dig into it much further because I concluded pretty quickly that it was all too weird for me.
Edit: I somehow forgot their obsession with Wendell Berry.
Interesting. Are you sure they weren’t Anglo-Catholics? If do, I might have grown up with some of them.
It's just occured to me that some of people I'm describing may have considered themselves part of "Weird Catholic Twitter" without actually self-identifying as "trad," although a lot of them definitely did. 2018 was a weird time.
Edit: And I also just realized that I've always interpreted the "rad" in "rad trad" as a sort of ironic reference to how uncool is it to practice "robes, smells & bells" religiousity in a "spiritual, but not religious" age, but I guess it means "radical" in a political sense. Maybe I've only ever encountered people using it in a self-mocking way and never realized it had Integralist connotations when used in a non-Twitter context.
Please keep these conversations coming. Mieville, Vickers, Robbins, Dwight Schrute, that handsome bald man who teaches Latin, and now Ed Simon.
Can Bloom’s “I do not agree” really mean anything other than “All shall not be saved”?
Quite an anecdote given the proximity to his death. I wonder if his disagreement shakes you more than your typical interlocutors?
I mean the fact that it came from comically learned, man of letters type w/ no dogmatic commitments
No, not really.
He calls Pittsburgh a Catholic city and it's one of the more concentrated Orthodox cities in the country. >.<
Still has more Catholics--including a lot of Eastern Catholics.
Ah, I've never met an Eastern Catholic who didn't tell me he wishes he was Orthodox but it would kill his baba. I think we get to count them here.
Only if you want to stack the deck.
I really enjoyed this discussion. Thank you. Can you steer me toward some "catch up" reading? I don't know about the so-called "Baroque Thomism" or its revival. Also, where can I learn more about your claim at about 16:34 - "It is modernity recapitulated from its most catastrophic moment, precisely the thing that led to the secularization of culture and the collapse of what they understand to be Christendom." I'm intrigued but want to learn more. Many thanks!
I have a recollection, perhaps delusion, of you mentioning a conversation between yourself and Jordan Wood. Is that happening?
I think you're imagining that. I did an interview with him and some other fellows some time ago.
Sorry. It would not be the first time! Judges take it in a less sanguine manner than you. Sorry for troubling you with my delusions.
No trouble.
After re-reading through the article I posted here by Daniel Heck, I discovered some problems I'd overlooked. So, deleted it.
Also, it is off-topic here. Apologies.
Hey David. I tried to edit my previous post but I don't know how to. I didn't see it after I went back to the thread. I assume it was deleted, which is fine as it wasn't that important of a comment anyway. I wasn't really thinking clearly when I wrote it, so please forgive me. It was just something about Dawkins. Thanks.
I imagine your New Testament, which I'll receive the 2nd edition soon, would be parallel in many ways to my copy of the CLNT. I'm excited read your book all the way through as well as ..All Saved and .. History of Christianity, etc. I've not yet made it through your books yet due to starting so many at once, plus I'm still adjusting to my new married life. I know, excuses, excuses! For the record, yours are at the top of my list!
I wanted to apologize for my previous entry, for being somewhat crass in my language. I wasn't able to edit my comment after I refreshed the page.
Great conversation between the two main participants and the guest star.
Ed Simon made a very astute observation about the way in which Twitter shapes our use of the language. I am embarrassed to admit that I have adopted quite a few expressions from that wretched place. One person who seems to be immune to the allures of Twitter’s simplicity is John Milbank, who somehow manages to maintain his sophisticated style even within this limited format and to produce such gems: “Schelling was a genius who repays much study; greater than Hegel. Yet he oscillated between seeing relation as finite and fallen and conflictual and God as pure identity, and putting conflictual relationality in God. He failed to think orthodox and peaceful substantive relation.”
That being said, for me Twitter is an indispensable source for getting news. You just need to create an anonymous account (in order to protect yourself against the consequences of incidentally liking a controversial tweet), follow some insiders and news sites specializing in the field you are interested in, and you will receive relevant news faster than any newspapers.
These interviews are always so interesting. Thank you, David!
Since you might not be in the know here, Ozkii (and to leave you in the lurch seems a bit uncompanionable), to view DBH's (and certain company) sentiments on Kingsnorth, you'll need to scan the discussion posts for "On Writing, Part Two" - at least some of those that weren't "deleted" or "removed." In nuce, a conversation will in all probability not be had between the two.
Yes. To be clear, he’s not my cup of tea.
Here we go again.
I know you're a metal fan, but Whitesnake? Really?
I think we used to call them hair metal or hair bands or something to that extent.
There were a lot of hybrid metal/punk bands I was into at one time. A lot of mixed genres going on.
omg